Honorverse
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Community Portal Archive
This is an archive page were posts and discussions from the Community Portal.

Adding some pictures[]

For the characters that we do not have pictures of, how about we put either the native country's flag or the service's flag that they belong to, so we can add a little eye candy to various articles, or even add that to ships and places that correspond to them. --Farragut79 18:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

In adding pictures, is it legal or just plain possible to put the pictures from the books, Jaynes, and the calendars on it. --Farragut79 19:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi I'm willing to contribute some art on for the wiki. I would just like to have some detailed descriptions of the characters (and actor studies recommendations). I want it also for reference material since I get confused who is who in my imagination. My online portfolio is at http://nik1979.deviantart.com/ email me at my user name (small caps) at gmail.com Justinaquino 14:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Welcome, feel free. --Farragut79 20:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Great, When can I hope to get a list of priorities. I think I can fit in my sched to Ink and Sketch one every 2 weeks or so. I still have to set up GIMP and my tablet. I can Probably send a sketch in a week after getting the description and my own research of actor studies and follow up with the inked. Do you think anyone would like to color them? Who should I email the sketches too for approval (I can only make minor revisions to save on time and effort unless I made a gross mistake on the character). Justinaquino 00:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
My email is farragut76@yahoo.com. If you want to contact Saganami and Dotz as well. We are kind of a triumvirate of admins. --Farragut79 05:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Book Covers?[]

I do believe this is a threat: "This is in response to a question you posted about using the cover artwork... For reasons I won't bother you with right now, I have previously had an E-mail correspondence with David Mattingly, the artist for the most popular (US released) cover art. He gave permission for me to use them on a page of mine. I expect that he would be just as receptive (if not more so) to the images being used on this site.

BTW, is there a way for this wiki to forward E-mails from one user to another?LP-mn 04:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)" This is a message from this contributor's only contribution. --Farragut79 01:02, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean, "a threat"? -- SaganamiFan (Talk) 04:31, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
As in email Mr Mattingly or else I tell type of thing. I am wondering on how book covers fall under copyrights and what not? As far as I can tell, we are not using any of the artwork for commercial use. Does anyone else know? --Farragut79 05:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
In countries observing the most common international convention re copyright, the term of a copyright runs from date of creation to some decades after the author's death (70 years, IIRC). The Mouse House has extended its tiny (but greedily grasping) paw in Congress, to protect Mickey, a few years ago, and this has rather extended the term in the US, if I understand correctly. Copyright exists from the moment of creation and does not require filing or registration with anyone. Litigation for damages is helped by filing, however, so it's strongly advised. Mattingly gave permission for some of his art to be used on WP (eg, at Treecat) and I suppose he might here as well. The optimum bad way to proceed is of course to simply go ahead and use art (which will necessarily be copyrighted) without bothering with permission or trying to determine the license involved. Perhaps the license is one which allows free use of one kind or another without permission. Or perhaps not. Not a good thing to discover, that last. 23:53, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

In regards to Fan Drawings[]

If we can get the permission of the artist who drew it, how about adding some of them to the articles as well, granted with an agreement from all of us. --Farragut79 18:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Honorverse Promotion[]

How do we go about promoting the site such as those ones with the banners on the bottom of the pages? We have over a thousand articles, I think it is time for us to get into the Wiki Community more. If those who oppose that we need more time, please feel free to express it. --Farragut79 18:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Above 1000 articles we have silver wiki status, the next and last promotion is golden status with above 5000 articles. In my opinion there is no need to be hectic with numbers - current content gives enough place for improvement. Good thing for promotion is planting links to our pages on outside websites - eg. it is very easy at wikipedia (wikia accounts links from outside when it asses some wiki popularity). Any guide for sticking a Honorverse banner?--dotz 22:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Proposition: Nominate ourselves for the Wikia Spotlight?--Farragut79 23:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I got a response back from the Wikia Team about the Spotlight Promotion::
"Hi. Honorverse Wiki looks like it is in good shape. Could you please drop the protection level on the main page from sysop down to at least registered users? I can't see that there is much (any?) vandalism in the history of that page that would require it to be protected, and wikia really encourages wikis to leave it unprotected. That way the "freely editable" site doesn't have an uneditable front page for visitors! If you can unprotect the page I'll be happy to add you to the spotlight list.
Also, and this is just an opinion, it might be nice to have an entry for the books/materials in your lefthand menu. I had to go to the author's page to find a list of the books (or any links to the books) and it seems like that might be something people might want to have access to... For whatever reason, the "Honorverse Materials" link on your mainpage did not actually equate in my head as "the books" when I looked at it :) - in fact I had no idea what it was. :) -- Wendy (talk) 01:22, 21 April 2009 (UTC)" --Farragut79 02:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Interesting feetback - even though I have to say I find the notion that the "Honorverse Material" link doesn't relate to the books a little strange, since it leads to a Category of all material with the complete list of all the books and anthologies in the form of the Honorversebox right on top of it...
Also, when we say everyone is free to edit in the wiki, that certainly doesn't mean we want everyone to be able to mess around in the main page... but I guess we can just as well unprotect it and try to keep an eye on it... -- SaganamiFan 01:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Merrystar left me a message saying that the Honorverse Wiki was put on the list for Wikia Spotlight. We are twelfth on the list. Good Job everyone. --Farragut79 20:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
We are now sixth on the list. --Farragut79 19:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
We are now being Spotlighted. Congrats, fellows and gals. --Farragut79 04:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Promotions of Administrators[]

So far, we have three active administrators, Myself, Saganami, and Dotz. I was thinking of promoting Jabrwock to Administrator with your opinions. I support him or her on this promotion because of his/her massive amount of technical editing that he/she has done. I do consider, Dotz, as the content editor, with Saganami as the more PR guy and promoter, by the way thanks for putting up the site's logo. --Farragut79 18:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

First of all ask Jabrwock. As technical guy he may like it.--dotz 22:03, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
I wanted to get your and Saganami's opinions. --Farragut79 00:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Fine with me. Jabrwock did a hell of a job so far, and he is much more of a help where this technical stuff is concerned ( I guess that's because he's a lot more interested in that than, for example, me ;-) -- SaganamiFan 16:21, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Templates[]

Does anyone know how to do the battle templates as seen from the Wookiepedia and the Babylon 5 Wiki?--Farragut79 05:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

As I had nothing better to do (except learning for my cultural history exams ;-) I worked a little something out on the basis of the Wookiepedia version... you can view the results here and here. Tell me what you think, folks.
Happy New Year, by the way! -- SaganamiFan 23:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes, that is good. Happy New Year. --Farragut79 06:13, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Quite handy thing.--dotz 19:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Main Page Revamp[]

To help with the new people coming and visiting, I am throwing out the idea of making the first page a portal for the books, so if you are looking for On Basilisk Station, you just go to the book, which has the back summary and the list of articles associated with the book. From there, the visitor would be able to chose if they want to spoil themselves or just look at specific areas.

For others, the categories will be farther down the page for others who want to just research a topic. On the very bottom will be main area for information about contributing. What about your ideas? --Farragut79 17:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Good idea, if you look for some other conceptions check The Vault wiki (concerning Fallout). It have eg. guite good solution for category tree - the most important categories are visible as list on its homepage.--dotz 18:57, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Here is the Main Page Redevelopment Test Page, which we can use to sort out the ideas. --Farragut79 18:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Cooperation with Wikipedia[]

Hi, I am an editor from Wikipedia. We have lots of Honorverse articles ([1]), but some of them are too detailed for our project and are getting deleted. In other cases I fear Wikipedia editors and Honorverse wiki editors are duplicating efforts, writing articles that already exist. It would be great if we could somehow work together. --Piotrus 02:11, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I ended my Honorverse editions in Wikipedia and as far as I checked there were very few Honorverse editors than/there. Good quality Honorverse stuff form Wikipedia is planted or refered here.--dotz 07:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Are you sure that everything is properl transwikified? I couldn't find equivalents of our lists: [2], [3], for example. I have proposed an idea here, but I am a bit too busy with some other project to do it myself. --Piotrus 16:47, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Terrible work. Mentioned RMN commissioned officers number only is reaching one thousand of names (I have no time to insert my .xml chart here). I like cats names list in Wikipedia, I am sceptical about quality of ships list. BTW each Honorverse article for a book containes list of mentioned characters (as links).--dotz 20:20, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
I have copied two articles: Elysian Space Navy and House of Winton. As you can see, a ton of content was on Wikipedia, and it seems to belong here instead. I'd hope that some other editors would help with moving stuff.--Piotrus 22:35, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
I've not done this before, but isn't it possible to upload an XML dump of all Wikipedia articles in [[Category:Honorverse]]? I have an export of these articles (both with and without Templates -- dunno which is better). If someone can grant me rights to import on this wiki, I could upload all these. Alternately, if someone else wants to do this, I could email them the XML files, or they can be exported via http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Export / edg 14:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, there. As you can see here, there is a vivid discussion on the way we import WP content into this wiki. Considering that most of the WP stuff doesn't fit our editing conventions and is in the form of extensive list articles (which we try to avoid here), we prefer to check and edit the content before transferring it. Dont't get this wrong, we want to get all WP content that is better than what we have, but not preferably by direct data transfer. -- SaganamiFan 18:03, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Roger, will comply. Thanks for getting back to me on this. / edg 13:36, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is currently purging a lot of Honorverse articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_ships_in_the_Honorverse , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Honorverse_concepts_and_terminology , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Treecat , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Weapons_technology_in_the_Honorverse , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Technology_in_the_Honorverse , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_regions_of_space_in_the_Honorverse and others. While this process accelerates and decelerates, and has been going for years, I expect that within few months there will be almost no Honorverse articles left on Wikipedia - it seems that some anti-fiction editors have decided to target Honorverse, and they have the advantage for both rules and policies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(fiction) which boils to the fact that Honorverse has not been discussed outside primary sources). As a Wikipedia admin I have access to deleted articles, and I will continue to move them here. I apologize if some moved content is deemed unneeded, and I will have no problems if editors of this HHverse wiki decide to delete them - however I believe that their content needs to be reviewed by editors whose attitude to fiction is more constructive then the attitude of some deletionists on Wikipedia :) Time permitting, I am trying my best to rewrite those articles into a format that is more acceptable for this wiki, but there is only so much I can do (mostly) alone. PS. Perhaps we could design a template and category for articles transwikied from Wikipedia and in likely need of review and partial rewrite by estabilished editors of this wiki? --Piotrus 01:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess I have to apologize to some people; I had no idea that Wikipedia was in the process of purging all Honorverse content this brutally. Totally wrong aproach, in my opinion, but who knows what goes on in the minds of these WP crusaders...?
Anyway, I just created a project page called Honorverse:Wikipedia content‎. Here, we can create sub-pages to store WP content until it can be included into our Wiki. I allready did it for the List of regions of space in the Honorverse and the List of locations in the Honorverse.
I will also create templates for stubs and "pages that need editing by experienced editiors", or whatever... -- SaganamiFan 13:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Style / tense[]

Looking at some articles, I am surprised to see they are written in past tense. Cerberus System had one planet which had three moons... it still has, right? Royal Manticoran Marine Corps was one of the branches of Manticorian military... it still is, right? I think all instances of past tense should be converted to present, to represent Honorverse universe as of the last book. People's Republic of Haven was, but Republic of Haven is... --Piotrus 22:35, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, be careful with present tense in the fiction concerning far future. As far as I remember it is Wikipedia style for descriptions of fiction also (as weel - sb said we are acting as Honorverse historians, with logical/physical point of view any description is later than described state). Anyway it is one of Editing Conventions here.--dotz 07:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

There are several points I'd like to make about the past tense:

  • by writing from "the future", we are assuming that there is indeed a future; MWW has not given as any indication that this will be the case. Sure, we know that the story will progress but we don't know how far (will he ever write a Honorverse story set after Honor's eventual death? Will she ever die? Perhaps the Honorverse universe will develop immortality serum? :)
  • how far is our future? "Honor Harrington was..." - ok, it is likely people will die. But "House of Winston was..." - now we are saying that the Winston dynasty will some day end (perhaps MWW intends it to rule forever?). Sure, human things pass... but wait, this keeps getting better. "Cerberus system was"? Are we now assuming we are writing in the future where the system has been destroyed or it has ceased to exist due to age?? And even "technology was..." - now we are writing from some really bizarre future where they have no concept of technology??

Clearly, using past tense for everything is ridiculous. I think that we need to clearly draw a line on when the past tense should be used, but this is much easier said than done. This entire mess could be avoided by adopting logical Wikipedia guidelines (keep in mind that most people are familiar with Wikipedia style and, like me, and other newcomers who have taken their time to note this problem here, will find this wiki shift to past tense confusing). My suggestion is to adopt the present tense, and write from the perspective of the encyclopedia writer writing on the last day described in the Honorverse book (well, a bit omnipotent writer, knowing about Masadan secret plans and such, but I hope you get my drift, you can think of the writer as "in the very near future" or such). Thus, if, according to the newest book, something is, then it is, only items that were destroyed were. So Honor is, Pavel Young was. This way we will not be usurping MWW privilege to write about the future of Honorverse universe, and we will make it easier for readers to understand the current state of the universe. --Piotrus 18:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

It may come as no surprise that I have a somewhat different view on this ;-)
  • David Weber already stated that he had intentions to move the main plot to a time 20+ years in the future (original "Honor's kids vs. Mesa" draft), and he may well do so in the future. He may, in time, even allow others to continue the series in a future setting. What if a short story that is set 1000 years later appears in the next anthology? Then what are we gonna do? Rewrite all the articles that are present now into past?
  • What about Jesus Ramirez? He "was" from HH1 to HH7, then he "is" again, and when he dies of whatever cause some day, he "was" again? What if others return from the dead, are we supposed to always rewrite entire articles and every reference to them accordingly?
  • What if someone just read the first book? For him the Honorverse "present" is 1901 PD, no matter what those who have read all books already say. As said in the editing conventions, there is no omnivalent "present" for the readers of a ficticious series of stories.
Most wikis on fiction have a strict "past tense in-universe, present tense out-universe" policy, and for a good reason. Otherwise, you get a mess like on parts of Memory Alpha, where they have a bunch of discussions on when exactly their "present" is, how to write about nearer and farer past times, and that stars are present but planets are past (!). This seems a lot more ridiculous to me than simply writing all articles in past tense for clarity's sake.
One other thing is really important to me: this project is not supposed to be an add-on of Wikipedia's Honorverse articles. We stand for ourselves, and our primary concern should be to have an optimized policy for our wiki, not the one that corresponds best with Wikipedia, where they're busy deleting everything their self-rightous editors don't like. As I see it, this wiki stands in the tradition of Memory Alpha, the Stargate Wiki and the 24 Wiki, and these wikis (for their own good) don't give square how Wikipedia does things, mainly because Wikipedia is always supposed to be out-universe. We are writing in-universe, where the past tense is much more practical, and people using such wikis are used to it as well. WP rules may ( and that is a BIG may! ) work on WP, but that does not mean they're what works best here. -- SaganamiFan 01:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Saganami put it clearly. We understand your concerns, but planets can be destroyed, people die, plants wilt, and the universe changes, adapts; especially with a writer who is still pushing out novels, who has allowed others to play in his playground (which opened the door for future single non-Weber Honorverse books). Also, the books are written in the past tense, as though David Weber is writing the annals of the Star Kingdom of Manticore a la Gibbon's History of the Roman Empire. --Farragut79 02:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion, the past is the correct tense to talk about any fictional work. The universe as applied to the HH novels, or the Star Trek series or even the Lord of the Rings series is only "real" in the authors mind and in reading the books, we are experiencing what has happened in that universe, not what will happen or is happening now.
When dealing with fiction, the only possible now is the now that the author is thinking. Or do we say that Jack Ryan will become President of the United States. (Tom Clancy John Patrick Ryan series of books - End of Debt of Honour) ? GodricVXR 20:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

No main article?[]

While this wiki seems to have excellent coverage of detailed subject, I am having trouble finding articles that give a big picture. I cannot find an article that will give me an overview of the universe geography, politics, or history. Yes, there's the timeline, but it's not the same as a history of the universe. And I am surprised that this very useful map of the universe was not imported from Wikipedia? Overall, while Wikipedia's article on the Honorverse mixes fiction with real world, in a style that is obviously not acceptable here, I think that we should have a similar article from which the readers would be able to navigate deeper into the wiki. The current main page lists only categories, and those are much less user friendly. If you take a look at the Star Trek wiki, note that their solution was to replace the categories on the main page via links to portals ([4]). If you type in history, you get a useful article: [5]. Same goes for politcs ([6]), or universe and galaxy; the only term I thought of that failed there was no links for "map", "maps" of "galaxy map". I would strongly recommend we try to rethink the basic structure of the wiki, to accommodate such articles. --Piotrus 23:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the others, but I always saw the categories as a temporary solution. In time, we should certainly replace them by Portals – frankly, I just avoided beginning that little piece of work so far ;-) However, I personally don't see that much advantages in the Portals of Memory Alpha, since they are nothing more than six connected lists of categories and articles. We can create them, but they're really not much more than our Main Categories.
As for the map, it could be used as a pattern, but it is already out of date. Personally, I would prefer a less detailed overview map and partial maps for the details.
Let's further discuss this! -- SaganamiFan 00:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe we should have a listing of the books on the front page, which would make it easier to navigate for first time browsers. MA's portals are the same as our categories, but organized better. I, also, agree that we need more of an introduction to the Universe. I like that map, but like Saganami said, it is outdated. --Farragut79 05:27, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, first time reader here..already burned through first 2 books this weekend (on basilisk station, the honor of the queen) and I came across this wikia, looking for a bigger/general picture of the whole universe...but saddened to find there really isn't an article talking about politics in general, and such. I also checked out the forum, kind of sad there isnt much activity going on there either :( well, these books are certainly old, not too popular these days eh? Heyo 08:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, the latest one was released 6 months ago... ;-) I guess we'll have to work out a lot more stuff, especially since more and more work is speedily deleted from Wikipedia. In time, I expect us to become the predominant internet source and the number of people to increase... ( we already moved to the front row of most Honor-related google searches )
As for the forum, I'd be happy to discuss whatever comes up, I've just never been a good topic-giver...
-- SaganamiFan (Talk) 10:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge from Glossary of Places[]

A collegue of mine just told me he maintaines a small Honorverse wiki. He considered merging it here but found this site too complex and gave up. I think it would be worthwile for us to convince him that migrating here would be to everyone's benefit. He is also a proficient mapmaker, and has made serveral Honorverse maps in the past. --Piotrus 17:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I suggest to create separate geographical portal or metacategory (planet's surface info is lacking also). I can imagine the problem is the same names of the articles for original Honorverse planets/systems and glossary articles. Some kind of solution is to make links from original articles to glossary. Another - title manner like that:
  1. Name of article in Honorverse (original article, no title change, geographical section of that article contains link to glossary article)
  2. Name of article (glossary) (glossary article).

--dotz 17:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Links page or widget[]

...would be helpful, eg. to collect links to things like Glossary of Places, Baen pages or Ad Astra.--dotz 05:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Short story articles[]

Hey guys & gals, today I tried to add references to a number of short stories in the anthology articles, and in the process realized that these are going to be overly crowded; in order to keep that from happening, I have begun to turn the redirects to the anthologies into individual articles, with plot descriptions and references, and a box template for each anthology that can be added to stories for easier navigation between them.

There's certainly a lot of work to do on these articles, but I figured it'd be better to start before to much stuff gets crammed into the anthology pages...

-- SaganamiFan (Talk) 16:39, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

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