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One of the complaints I hear and read most often is that Honor has become an extremely "superior" character who always wins and even gets off without bruises when she loses. As a matter of fact, I think that is true for some of the middle books, but in the last ones she really shows a little more human weaknesses, at least in the more private part of her life. Same with Elizabeth III, whose character is really getting in the way of peace in HH11...
-- SaganamiFan 02:11, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Well, it's rather hard to have bruises in a universe with Quick-Heal. ;) Emotionally though, yes, for the middle few books, there was a bit of a dead zone. And DW has done a lot more character development in the more recent books. Jabrwock 02:53, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Don't loss of an eye, all the nerves on one side of her face, and an arm count as "bruises"? As far as further damage goes, in the Honorverse, fleet admirals who survive - recover. Mostly, superdreadnoughts either suceed in protecting their 3-4 most vital spots, including the flag bridge, or they die catastrophically; McKeon was an exception in that the ship survived.
Let's not forget that, although we were not belabored with reading through her daily routine during down times (much), Honor has had at least 4 periods of extended out-of-service time, 2 of them for 1-to-2 year physical recoveries. Also recall that the last 2 massive books (3 if you count SftS) have only covered about 2.7 years, but unlike the previous books, there was essentially NO elapsed time between the books.
So after 8-9 books of seeing EPISODES of Honor's life and development into the greatest tactical and strategic actor of her age, you are now getting a concentrated dose of her at the height of her powers when, given anything even roughly approaching adequate corelation of forces, she SHOULD be the winner. Think Napoleon, from ~1801 until ~1813, or Temujin, from the consolidation of the Mongol tribes until he died as master of half the world.
Weber has stated that he originally intended to kill off Honor at the Battle of Manticore, and have the next generation carry on a few years down the road. But some long-story-arc history timing changed when he and Eric began collaborating on the "spook-side" series in Crown of Slaves, which made it more sensible for Honor to remain alive as a central character in the continuing series.
And that is what central characters in adventure sagas do - win again and again against frightening odds and live to fight again - until they don't. -- anonymous 06:54, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I think that sums isup pretty well :-) -- SaganamiFan 08:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
McKeon wasnt an exception, many FOs have perished due to hits to the Flag Bridge which didnt take out the ship. Also Kuzak could be classed as one of these as it was a hit to the compensator which took her out, the ship still survived. (Tenuous I know!!) GodricVXR 19:15, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
I can't agree more about the "superior" part. For all intents and purposes, Honor's have no flaws. Her enemies(and most authority figures) are all incompetent fools. Everyone loves or respects her; otherwise they are irredeemable scumbags or people who are jealous\fear her efficiency, effectiveness, and talent. Anything that goes wrong is the fault of someone else, and she always makes the best of a bad situation.
I really don't care what goes on in some of the middle book. As far as I am concerned she is one of the most unlikable, most unbelievable and most boring protagonists. --Mor123 (talk) 15:46, September 11, 2014 (UTC)


Do you think we'll ever learn something more about DuQuesne? Personally, I'd love to have a short story in the next anthology where he and the way he formed the DuQuesne Plan are described. Surely he would make an interesting character, chosing to end democracy in order to "safe" the republic. I also found the side of Rob S. Pierre's character the most fascinating where we could briefly see he wasn't actually a monster, but wanted to make a change for the better - even though he realized himself how badly he had screwed up in the end... -- SaganamiFan 01:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I like such a things as an quasi-historical appendix. A Honorverse lexicon was mentioned somewhere. I think it could be quite hypocritic person, a kind of politician and quasi statesman like "the end justifies the means" (I can imagine at least of some special measures and limitations of the democracy were called "temporary").--dotz 19:32, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Monarch Competition[]

A little ranking of the Manticoran Monarchs, depending on how long they managed to stay alive... ;-)
1. Elizabeth II → 57 y
2. Samantha II → 55 y
3. William II → 51 y
4. David I → 41 y
5. Elizabeth III → 39 y as of 1922 PD ( good luck ! )
6. Elizabeth I → 32 y
7. Roger II → 27
8. Roger III → 25 y
9. Samantha I → 23 y
10. Michael I → 21 y
11. Caitrin I → 21 y
12. George I → 17
13. Adrienne I → 12 y
14. William I → 9 y
15. Roger I → 4 y
16. Edward I → 2 y
-- SaganamiFan 23:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Not all of them were assassinated. (3 victims?) --dotz 07:16, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
William I and Roger III were assassinated; Edward I died in a boating accident. Another assassinated Royal was Queen Solange, Roger II's wife and Adrienne I's mother. -- SaganamiFan 13:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
My maths makes Elizabeth III 55 years old in 1922 PD - 16 years old at the death of Roger III in 1883 +39 years = 55 years old. GodricVXR 19:23, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
Your math is off Elizabeth III was 18 years old when she assumed the throne. Its plainly stated in Queen's Gambit.--John964 20:32, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Bio request[]

Could somebody write a little about Ingemar Cassetti? I am reading snippets of Torch, and this name appears very early in the story as a reference to events in Crown... and I can't recall who that was :D --Piotrus 03:50, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Believe it or not, he's on my list for today's stubs :-)
Ingemar Cassetti was the Solarian League's lieutenant governor of the Maya Sector under Oravil Barregos. (also his political chief-of-staff) He orchestrated the plan to kill Hieronymus Stein, throw the blame on Manpower Incorporated and then use that to drive forward Maya Sector's growing alienation from the League. After the liberation of Torch he held a victory speech, during which he was assassinated by a marksman appointed by Thandi Palane in order to remove him from the sector's political arena and satisfy those who demanded blood for the Stein killing and his other schemes.
-- SaganamiFan (Talk) 11:50, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Error over an Admiral[]

I just wanted to say that there was an error on Admiral Rollin's page. It's linked with the "Manticorian Admirals" topic. Or Rollin is a Havenite Admiral (that's a pity because he's a fine officer :( )
Could you correct this? Thanks -- 11:48, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Done. Thanks for pointing it out! -- SaganamiFan 03:56, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Hofschulte incident[]

I'm kinda looking forward to see how Gustav XI will react when he finds out that Mesa is responsible for the death of his nephew (or niece). Would love to see more of the Empire anyway, including an actual appearance of the Emperor... -- SaganamiFan 08:34, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
I dont think that Honor is going to leave much left for him to be honest. But you can probably assume that any move against Mesa will be a full blown alliance thing, so Manticore, Grayson, Empire and Havenite all kicking ass together. You would think the MAN would learn from what happened to the Youngs. GodricVXR 19:26, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
Don't forget Erewon. They would really probably like to have a hand in billiard balling Mesa.--John964 20:32, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
They better make a schedule :-)) -- SaganamiFan 20:41, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
Find Darius and all plot members first. Mesa System could be sacrificed (no important info or technology there).--dotz 21:37, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
Hey dotz, stop being the Honor to our Tourvilles! (Ive got a decent cigar around here someplade too! ) Sorry Erewon, please dont be annoyed. GodricVXR 22:44, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
Just processing the info. Lester and Honor are friends now.--dotz 08:43, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
So: some Torch affair leading to the another end of the Torch Wormhole Bridge, where is the next junction and Mannerheim, the official member of the Renessaince Factor/Confederated States of America, er.....--dotz 08:50, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Admiral Crandall[]

Who do you think shot Admiral Sandra Crandall in the head from behind during the Battle of Spindle? -- SaganamiFan 14:26, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
Some bribed (blackmailed) member of her staff (some assistant officer was enough, all members of her staff should be arrested for criminal investigation purposes). Nanotech controlled killers acted openly (Hofschulte or Honor's flag lieutenant).--dotz 19:09, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
Ou-yang Zhing-wei, Vice Admiral, Ops-O. Hint: Pg 274, Shavarshyan thoughts on the outside the box thinking of Zhing Wei, Nexy physical location on pg 289 "Sandra Crandall's head snapped around at Ou-yang Zhing wei's hard, flat announcement." Calm flat announcement for 12K inbound. little odd there unless she had more than a clue about total firepower capability of the enemy to start with. Plus she made continuous statements of caution/what if prior to the point. Even when it was obvious the decision was no longer in doubt. Playing to the audience Samboth and Shavarshyan in order to be in good graces with the sollie fleet when repatriated in order to influence the next wave of solarian blunders. Zhing-wei will be seen by sollies as having used just the right amount of caution and reason without suborning Crandall.
Pg 244 reference to how obvious it was that Zhing-wei isn't part of Manpower's plan. This is the standard as we have learned for Alignment operatives, look like the farthest thing from an operative in order to be one, like certain investigative reporters.
Yep, that certainly makes sense... -- SaganamiFan 02:57, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
The text novel can be issued in 2015. It is a lot of time to play with way of creating the characters and suprise us. --dotz 07:51, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Impact of prolong on society[]

Recently I thought a lot about the way a human society would change when almost everyone's natural lifespan was doubled or quadrupled within a few generations. It would completely change the way humans plan their life, wouldn't it? You could live several lives in a row, from our perspective, as you likely wouldn't do the same thing for hundreds of years. You could have children who could be a hundred years apart in age. You likely wouldn't remain married to the same person for hundreds of years, (let's face it, most people can't even manage one of our lifetimes together...)
The whole concept of inheritance as we know it would be gone; as Weber mentions once, a monarch like Elizabeth III could rule for hundreds of years, and by the time he or she died, the oldest child is likely almost as old. To me, it seems much more likely that after, like, eighty years, you would give up the crown and pass it on. Or you jump a few generations when passing on the crown.
As someone once said, much of our life is shaped by the fact that it ends at a certain point. I also wonder how it would affect our inner drive to change and to evolve, which I think is at least partly owed to the knowledge that as individuals, we have very limited time to affect the world.
Just a bit of philosophical thinking here ;-) I'd love to hear your thoughts! -- SaganamiFan 19:09, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Treecat/Terran Cat encounter?[]

It's a bit of a dumb question, but was there ever a scene in any of the books where Nimitz (or any other Treecat) encounters a terran house cat? I think the reactions from both might be interesting.

The perfect candidate would be Dicey, the main coone owned by Michelle Henke's steward. Her and Honor are bound to get together some time with Nimitz and Dicey present, but I'm not sure if that happened yet "on screen"... -- SaganamiFan (talk) 09:15, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
Ah cool, never caught that, only halfway through HH9 at the moment.
Then he hasn't been introduced yet - keep going ;-) -- SaganamiFan (talk) 08:06, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Honor's gold stars[]

Part of the Manticoran Navy's decorations are gold stars, each indicating a hyper-capable command. They are not mentioned amongst Honor's decorations. According to HH7 she has 6 stars, but I can think of only 5 ships: Hawkwing, Fearless (light), Fearless (heavy), Nike and Wayfarer. Which ship am I missing, or which ship did she leave and get reassigned command of? 04:55, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

I think it could be HMS Unconquered. She is it's Commanding Officer from 1920 PD (HH11). -(unsigned) Special:Contributions/ 10:54, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
HH7 (In Enemy Hands) happened 1911 PD, so Unconquered is not the sixth command. 05:39, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
Unconquered is a ship-turned-museum that was commanded by Edward Saganami and Ellen D'Orville while it was commissioned. It is considered an honor to be placed on her 'active duty' list, and Honor Harrington was granted that honor, pardon the pun, in 1920 PD. So while it's only a decorative command, it's still a 'hyper going' command and I believe it would be counted for her dress uniform decorations. 13:50 August 10, 2014 (EST)
Again, Honor Harrington had 6 stars in 1911 PD - 9 years before becoming commander of Unconquered (1920). 02:53, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

I don't remember that mention of 6 stars are you sure ? what chapter is that on?

Prisoners snafu[]

How did Theisman and Chin ever get back to Haven

Theisman may have been captured before the war so a release is not impossible if pretty damn stupid from the Grayson point of view but I guess it could be a reward for his testimony in the Blackbird case ( at least its how i always justified it) but Genevieve Chin was captured at the start of the war. And there are no exchanges during he war so HOW the HELL did she get back to Haven.

BTW Thomas Theisman is SO lucky Anton doesn't know he is the "pirate" who killed his wife ... cause alliance or no I don't think he would take it to well.

Rafe's Saganami Cross[]

Is the way Rafe earned his SC ever mentioned? I can't seem to find it.